Interview with Mr. Garo Paylan, a lawmaker of the pro-Kurdish Peoples’ Democratic Party (HDP). Mr. Paylan is from the Armenian community in Turkey. He is the founding member of the HDP. However, alongside tens of his colleagues, Mr. Paylan faces prosecution by the Turkish government as part of an extensive crackdown of the opposition.
Turkey has cruelly persecuted the Armenians and the Kurds for decades. The HDP was able to unite all the minorities in Turkey under its umbrella but is currently facing closure by the Turkish government and its authoritarian president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan. The HDP has had thousands of its members jailed since 2015, including its former co-leaders. Additionally, under President Erdogan, Turkey has become the world’s largest prison for journalists, academics, and political activists. Erdogan’s recent move to shut down the HDP is a classic tactic by the Turkish state against democracy since the former governments have banned many political parties, including five major Kurdish parties, since 1990.
Mr. Paylan spoke about many issues facing Turkey and the HDP, including the indictment against the party and HDP’s struggle to remain a political entity.
Excerpts
The HDP closure case is not a judiciary case but a political one.
The HDP was established eight years ago. The HDP is a diverse party and could convince people for a democratic solution for the Kurdish issue, the Armenian issue, and other problems.
Unfortunately, the peace process [between PKK and the government] had ended in 2015, and for six years, Erdogan and his nationalist partner is trying to defeat the HDP, but we are standing still. They [Government] jailed thousands of our people, but the struggle is going on.
We have faced a trial case, which has been in the Supreme court of Turkey. With the direction of Erdogan and his nationalist partner, this case has opened. This is not a judicial case. This is a political case, and they could not defeat us in the political area; they are trying to shut our party in the judiciary area. We are going to defend our party, but whatever happens, the struggle is going to go on. This is our decision.
HDP aims to decentralize power in Turkey
The HDP is a romantic party. Maybe it’s the only part that has all the identities and all the movements. All the people who ask for justice and equality and justice are in the HDP.
They are trying to criminalize my party because we don’t have the media coverage. Every day, they are trying to blame my party with outrageous allegations, but I think most people believe that this is an operation of Erdogan and his nationalist partner. The allegations are about our speeches. Let’s say it’s all about our freedom of speech. We are asking for autonomy in Turkey. They say, ‘you want to divide our country,’ but we ask for decentralization of power. Erdogan wants to centralize power, we are asking for this decentralization of power, but they are labeling it as terrorist activism. In international law and current Turkish law, it’s not a crime, but as I said, they have full control of the media in Turkey, and they’re trying to criminalize my party. But with the support of the Turkish people and with the solidarity of the international actors, I think we will get rid of these allegations, and we will save our party.
Erdogan will decide on the closure case.
Erdogan is going to decide when the constitutional court is going to give the decision, it is going to take at least five months, but it’s going to extend to a year. Our struggle is going to be decisive about it, and the solidarity around us is going to be decisive when the constitutional court is going to decide if the HDP is going to be shut down or not. Erdogan is an opportunist leader. Before every decision of his, he looks at what is going to be the consequences. If the price is big, he is not going to give that decision despite his nationalist partner’s demands. But if we don’t have enough solidarity coming from all over the world, then he might give that decision to shut down HDP because he doesn’t have the popular vote now.
The opposition wants to end Erdogan’s ruling.
The opposition camp now wants to get rid of Erdogan and wants to get rid of the one-man rule of the country. Now we are around 60%, but we are [HDP] the kingmakers. We have around 15% of the vote, and he thinks if he [Erdogan] can get rid of the HDP, he can take the popular vote. We are asking from the opposition parties to have solidarity with the HDP. Still, that solidarity, unfortunately, is not enough because they are somehow nationalists, and Erdogan is blaming them for working with HDP. They say, ‘no, we don’t have any ties with HDP.’ Because of that, we are a little bit lonely in the political area, but we are not lonely among our people.
Erdogan is trying to satisfy the Biden Administration.
Erdogan is an opportunist leader, and he saw that the Biden administration is against him. He is trying to give anything the Biden administration might want. He says, ‘I’m not going to do any terrible acts in the eastern Mediterranean, I’m not going to act terrible acts in Libya or Syria, and you are withdrawing from Afghanistan, and I can stay there as part of troops of the Western countries.’ I guess the Biden administration might be influenced by that. So, the Biden administration might know [how to] appease Erdogan in return for Erdogan’s acts which the Biden administration might like. I guess the interest of the Western countries, civilized countries, is a democratic Turkey, not a one-man rule to country it’s never going to be stable. One day Erdogan will do this, and another, he is going to do the vice-a-versa.
The world needs a democratic Turkey.
We need a democratic Turkey, of course for Turkish people’s sake, but at the same time, the world needs a democratic Turkey because Turkey is a Muslim majority country, and it was a candidate to be a democratic country and could influence all the Middle East. Now we lost that dream, but we can have that dream again because there are millions of people in Turkey who are fighting for democracy. And if we can have that democracy with that, I guess the polarization in the world somehow will end from the Muslim world, and the Christian world and the Muslim world will have a democratic example, that will be very important.
It’s not a fight between Turks and Kurds but between autocracy and democracy
We suffered so much just because of this nationalist ideology. We suffered the genocide, and that crime was unpunished. That unpunished crimes led to new crimes in this one-hundred-year century. Kurds are struggling for democracy. That’s what I’m sure of because they are not struggling only for them. They believe even if they can get their rights, but if Armenians are not free, I can’t be free as well. So this is very important; they are struggling for me as well. They are struggling for justice for the Armenian genocide; they are struggling for Alawites’ rights; we are struggling together for LGBT rights. So, nobody is free when somebody is not free. We believe in that. So this is not a fight between Turks and Kurds. This is a fight between an autocrat and the ones who are fighting for democracy.
90% of the Armenian community vote for HDP
At least 90% [of Armenians] vote for the HDP because they saw that. The only party that recognizes the Armenian Genocide is the HDP. The only party which has some deputy co-chair is HDP. No, the only party which is a diverse party is HDP. The rest of the parties are some nationalists, conservative nationalists, or secular nationalists, but they are all nationalists. So most of the time, people in Turkey are about voting for HDP, but they are silent in this kind of nationalist atmosphere where they can’t show their solidarity openly. Maybe I am in charge, but they have the right to be afraid because, in this kind of nationalist atmosphere, terrible provocations happened against them. So the fear factor is on the table, unfortunately, but we used to be more vocal five, six years ago when we had the peace process. So we believe when Kurds have their rights, we will have our rights as well. So we are struggling together.
The majority of Turkey supported the peace process
Erdogan convinced the Turkish people of the peace process, and only several years ago, when the peace process was in charge, 75% of the people who are pro-peace process and Erdogan convinced for that. But after he had the power struggle with the Gulanists, he turned his face to the status quo; he turned his face to the nationalist party. Now they are working together. If he finds another way, I guess it is so hard nowadays, but let’s say the world asks him, return to democracy. Not only for him, for his party, I guess he might try it, but it’s so hard for him to turn back to democracy or a peace process.
Opposition parties should establish a democratic coalition
We are asking the opposition parties to establish a democratic coalition. It doesn’t mean a coalition for the elections because we need our institutions are suffering, and they are all demolished. We need a restoration period; we need to have an agreement about how we are going to restore our country. But unfortunately, there are two camps in Turkey. One is a conservative nationalist camp, and the other camp, the secular nationalist camp. Each of them blames the other for having some relation with HDP. The two sides don’t have any courage to have a coalition with the Kurds or the HDP. I am so sorry about it because we always ask the opposition, of course, we have different thoughts; there’s one thing, we have a common thought is to get rid of one man rule country, and to turn back to a parliamentary system.
The HDP is against Erdogan’s expansionist policies
We have been opposing that [expansionist policies ]for years now. We are always opposing in the parliament. We shouldn’t intervene with our neighbors’ problems. First of all, we should establish peace in Turkey. We always say this is going to influence Syria, Iraq, and other neighbors as well. But if you follow nationalist policies in Turkey, how can you transfer peace to Syria or Iraq? So Turkey is the key. I’m at the budget committee. Turkey is spending so much money on sophisticated weapons, but Turkish people are unemployed, and they have economic problems. Why don’t we spend our money on our people’s interests and people’s problems? But we are wasting money on sophisticated weapons.
We are making acts in Eastern Medetirrian, Libya, and Syria. It’s not solving the problems, it’s making the problems bigger. So we need to focus on peace in Turkey. I am sure if we can have it, that’s going to influence all the region. Turkey is the key, and we will have that democratic Turkey with the struggle of ours and our democratic friends. I am still optimistic about it, but the world should care about democratic Turkey. I sometimes see in Washington DC and capitals they sometimes think Turkey is a lost cause. We don’t like that. Turkey is not a lost cause. There are still people who are fighting for democracy in Turkey. I guess one way or the other, w are going to win that fight for democracy.